EMA: boxingfan529 wrote:
actually, God made it a short cut already in the garden of Eden.
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bf, don’t you believe God is still creating man at this time?
boxingfan529: the focus of sharing the gospel (good news) is that while we are still yet alive, sinning and realize that we are far from God, Christ already died for us because of His great love. love is the emphases. that’s the heart and soul of the bible based on john 3:16. salvation is just the light at the end of the tunnel if we accept God’s love through Christ.
EMA: By citing John 3:16, your answer to my question, in effect, is salvation. Don’t you also touch creation?
boxingfan529: is that a question or your statement?
after the fall, the image of man as God intended it to be is tarnished because of sin which started in the fall.
EMA: The question mark shows that what I posted is a question.
boxingfan529: a complete gospel presentation always starts with creation to emphasize the fall which started sin in man.
EMA: So, back to the question I first asked, don’t you believe God is still in the process of creating man at this time?
boxingfan529: creation and creating man at this time as new babes are two different issue. i dont know your point but yes God is still creating man at this time which is very obvious. here’s my question, is the original man (adam & eve) same as the created man today?
EMA: boxingfan529 wrote:
creation and creating man at this time as new babes are two different issue. i dont know your point but yes God is still creating man at this time which is very obvious.
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I’m not referring to the birth of babies. My point is the adult who sinned and for whose redemption Christ died for.
Why do you say that “God is still creating man at this time which is very obvious”?
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boxingfan529 wrote:
here’s my question, is the original man (adam & eve) same as the created man today?
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So that I will be accurate in my answer, who do you refer to “as the created man today?”
boxingfan529: epi,
please make your point more clearly.
so you mean, God is still creating man is: adult who sinned and for whose redemption Christ died for?
i was referring to the babies when i said created man today…
EMA: Thanks bf for clarifying that the creation you have in mind is “referring to the babies”.
I now state the point of this thread “more clearly”:
From his state of having been sentenced to die for his sin, man is taken off the said predicament by Christ’s sacrifice and revival. After the sinner man has been granted repentance, he is baptized to symbolically wash away the sins and he is then imbued with the Holy Spirit through the laying on of hands. At the point of the indwelling of God’s spirit in this man, he becomes a Christian (Romans 8:9).
From this same point in his life, this man becomes “a new creation”.
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation;
The physical phase of God’s making of man was finished when Adam and Eve came to being after which they merely reproduced their kind. The start of the spiritual creation phase, which was suspended when Adam and Eve did not and has since failed to eat of the fruit of the tree of life in the Garden of Eden, is put on course in the man who has been given the Holy Spirit of God.
Thus continues God’s creation process in this man to make him become like God in character. Eventually, all men will undergo this phase of the creation process to attain God’s purpose of creating man in his image according to his likeness.
boxingfan529: i have no problem with this new creation… that is what it is in 2 corith 5:17
boxing_the_no1_sport: God so loved the world that He sent His only begotten son and we are SAVED!
EMA: Should be saved. Should “have everlasting life”.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
el Kapre: Epifanio M. Almeda wrote:
bf, don’t you believe God is still creating man at this time?
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creating or transforming?
EMA: Creating when you reckon from the start. Transforming when referring to the change in the mental or spiritual make up.
But the final say is on God whether the man is to be slain or be changed to spirit.
el Kapre: final say is on God? does it mean that even a man who lived an almost sinless life can still be slain?
what is the use of following His laws if at the end of the day God will just declare it as null and void?
power tripping god?
EMA: You made a problem by your conclusion “what is the use of following His laws if at the end of the day God will just declare it as null and void? power tripping god” which you based on your own made up premise “even a man who lived an almost sinless life can still be slain”.
It is man’s choice whether or not he would have God to rule over him. The man who submits to God as his ruler will be changed to spirit with eternal life. The man who rejects him God will consider as an enemy. His final say is for the man to be slain.
Luke 19:27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.
el Kapre: Epifanio M. Almeda wrote:
Should be saved. Should “have everlasting life”.
John 3:16 For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in Him should not perish but have everlasting life.
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ka epi, from this verse, it is very clear who will be slain and who won’t.
it does not imply that God has the final say.
can you give me a verse pls ka epi about God having the “final say”
EMA: Sure el.
The final say is the order to execute.
Luke 19:27 But bring here those enemies of mine, who did not want me to reign over them, and slay them before me.
BillyShears: ano ba talaga? new creation or continuing creation?
EMA: Now these are sensible questions deserving answers.
Not “or” since “new creation” is just a phase or stage of “continuing creation”.
“New creation” is in the sense that man has entered another phase or stage in the creation process. This is new considering that an ingredient absent in the first stage, the Holy Spirit, has been added.
Adam and Eve had not entered this phase when they failed to eat of the tree of life which symbolized the Holy Spirit. And all men after them have sinned themselves.
After man sins, he needs “plan B” which is the salvation process. As one is called to undergo this process, his spiritual creation follows.
“Continuing creation” applies when you consider the very start of the creation process. A person who receives the Holy Spirit is still the same physical person he once was but he now goes through the process of changing his outlook in life after his sins are purged. His mind now is to be renewed.
Romans 12:2 And do not be conformed to this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind, that you may prove what is that good and acceptable and perfect will of God.
BillyShears: i couldn’t agree with that.
when god said he “created man.”, that means the creation of man is done. i can’t see why you’re trying to harmonize that with verses written by other people and from books apart.
if in genesis, god said “now i have begun creating man”, then, i can consider to agree with you. but that is not the case.
EMA: Man’s physical form no longer changed from Adam. No new improvement has been added because the physical phase is complete.
Then the man whose mind has been given the capacity to want to conform to God would ask God to create in him “a clean heart” – a mental frame that avoids sin and would want to be ruled by God in all his conduct.
Psalm 51:10 Create in me a clean heart, O God, And renew a steadfast spirit within me.
BillyShears: genesis didn’t say “god completed the creation of man’s physical appearance, and is now going to continue with the other aspects”. it just said “god created man” he even saw that it was good.
you’re stretching things, epi.
EMA: Just disregard my answer if it doesn’t connect and consider your question/s unanswered.
shadow warrior: l guess this goes back to the potter issue.
Adam and Eve didn’t have clean hearts?
why?
aren’t they supposed to be creations by a powerful being/master potter?
you mean they were not perfect?
there were flaws in them?
why?
on the other hand, IF they had clean hearts,
why were they ‘deceived’ by the devil?
EMA: Not flaws. Adam and Eve’s physical makeup were perfect. But the “powerful being/master potter” was and is not making an automaton in a man. God wants beings to be with him for eternity by their choice.
Thus, he made Adam and Eve with the freedom to either follow or reject him.
While Eve sinned through deception, Adam sinned by clear choice to giving more weight his wife’s words over God’s.
1 Timothy 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived, fell into transgression.
And every man since then sinned and needs to be cleansed.
shadow warrior: So if there was no devil on that garden,
there would have been no problem?
Is it safe to say that the devil was actually working for Yahweh, as what some researchers propose?
He would have been eliminated right away, right?
lnstead he was able to achieve great powers.
Why?
EMA: Not necessarily. There would still be a problem since man has the power of choice not to follow God at all times. He still decides what course to follow in given situations. He has his ego to contend with.
In 1 Timothy 2:14, Paul shows that Adam was not influenced by the devil when he sinned. He knew the devil’s words were contrary to God’s as regards the eating of the fruit of the forbidden tree.
Adam exercised his power of choice between heeding God and pleasing his wife.
Genesis 3:17 Then to Adam He said, “Because you have heeded the voice of your wife, and have eaten from the tree of which I commanded you, saying, ‘You shall not eat of it’:
Of course, it would be not as difficult for the people to follow God when the devil is absent like during the age to come and the age that follows after that.
Satan is still on earth and remains on the scene even at this time since his term of office is yet to expire.