Admerald: Epifanio M. Almeda wrote:
To bible believers: The emphasis I see in most bible professing groups is salvation. Salvation is just but a part, which became necessary though expected from the start, of the bigger project God intended when he fashioned man from the dust of the ground. God’ purpose still stands which is to make man in his image, according to his likeness.
Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;
Non-bible believers may also comment.
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in the next verse we read:
27 So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
God created man according to his image, and He did so.
Man is created in the image of God.
But no way it means, that ADAM AND EVE were also GOD. Unless you Believe that God can also comit sin? God can fall away from Himself. Or God can be punished?
EMA: Who says “that ADAM AND EVE were also GOD”?
Admerald: I want to make it clear here.
Genesis 1:26, does not suggest that God’s purpose is to create another gods.
So, what is the point of thread title “The Real Issue is Creation and not Salvation”?
EMA: The point is clearly stated right on the first post which I will underline for emphasis.
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Epifanio M. Almeda wrote:
To bible believers: The emphasis I see in most bible professing groups is salvation. Salvation is just but a part, which became necessary though expected from the start, of the bigger project God intended when he fashioned man from the dust of the ground. God’s purpose still stands which is to make man in his image, according to his likeness.
Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;
Admerald: in the other thread (Introducing: H.W. Armstrong and his teachings) you confirmed what Tony said explaining what you believe.
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Tony wrote:
Parang ganito ang contention kasi ni epi. Hindi pa tapos ang creation. Kaya nang sinabi ng Diyos na let us make man in our image and likeness, hindi ka pa magiging like God yung araw din na yon. Umpisa lang yon ng creation process. Hanggang ngayon, ginagawa pa tayo ng Diyos at balang araw magiging like God na tayo. Kumbaga, work in process pa lang tayo ngayon. Correct me if I’m wrong epi.
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Epifanio M. Almeda wrote:
No correction needed Tony.
Today man is still of the dust, mortal, corruptible. The creation process continues until man is changed to spirit as God is spirit.
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You are telling to us that the creation of man to God’s own image is not completed yet, is is still going on untill we become like God also.
BUt Verse 27 in Genesis 1 confirms that God completed creating man according to his own image.
So God created man in his own image,
in the image of God he created him;
male and female he created them.
And Adam and Eve is not gods or spirit beings. You simply misunderstood what is meant to be created according to the image of God.
EMA: Let’s be both open minded as to who “simply misunderstood what is meant to be created according to the image of God”. It’s good you reviewed the other thread but it seems you missed the rest of the discussion. I’ll restate and expound.
God created man in his image according to his likeness. Since God is spirit, the finished product man must be spirit.
Having been given the capacity to bungle the project with his freewill, God made man a mortal. Genesis 1:27 shows man’s physical creation finished.
Genesis 1:26 Then God said, “Let Us make man in Our image, according to Our likeness;… 27 So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
But Adam & Eve were hardly in the likeness of God at that point. God was spirit while Adam & Eve were of the dust.
The spiritual phase of the process was to start with Adam & Eve using their God given freewill to make the move. This is to eat from the tree of life which could have given them the Holy Spirit of God but not of the forbidden tree lest their eating of it makes their death a certainty.
Making choices and choosing the right way is an attribute of God which he wants man to acquire for man to become like him.
Genesis 2:9 And out of the ground the LORD God made every tree grow that is pleasant to the sight and good for food. The tree of life was also in the midst of the garden…16 And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, “Of every tree of the garden you may freely eat; 17 but of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil you shall not eat, for in the day that you eat of it you shall surely die.”
Adam & Eve erred in their choice and failed to eat from the tree of life which caused the delay in their spiritual creation phase until they are first cleansed from their sin.
Enter the cleansing process – salvation. Man is to be purged from sin with the great involvement and ultimate sacrifice of Jesus Christ. When man is called to undergo the salvation process, his successfully receiving the Holy Spirit, where Adam & Eve failed to attain, makes him enter the spiritual creation phase. In a sense, this Holy Spirit indwelt man becomes a new creation.
2 Corinthians 5:17 Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation; old things have passed away; behold, all things have become new.
The Holy Spirit will guide the man to make the right choices. At Christ’s return the “new” man who endures to the end and overcomes will be changed from his mortal state to immortality. From being flesh & blood if he is still alive or from being dust if he had already died, this man will be changed to spirit in a moment, very quickly, just like the twinkling of an eye.
1 Corinthians 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
This is the change that culminates the creation process where man will put on incorruption and immortality of which he is not in his present stage of creation.
1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.
Job hoped for this future change knowing that he will die and be turned to dust in the meantime.
Job 14:14 If a man dies, shall he live again? All the days of my hard service I will wait, Till my change comes.
John looks forward as to how man will look like when this change occurs. We shall be like God for we shall see God as he is – spirit.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
At that time, God shall have accomplished his declared objective to make man “according to our likeness” (Genesis 1:26).
don robert: nice post, Mang Epi!
EMA: Thanks, don.
Admerald: EPI’s understanding of the scripture is really faulty.
He start with “God created man in his image, and since God is spirit the finished product must be spirit”. Then he pick and twist verses of the Bible to prove his point. That is wrong Methology my friend.
You start with the Bible and make a conclusion from it, and not pick verses of the Bible to make your conclusion biblical.
Verse 27. anhilates EPI’s contention:
So God created man in His own image; in the image of God He created him; male and female He created them.
But since EPI already made up his mind that the Finish product must be Spirit, he questioned verse 27.
EPI said “But Adam & Eve were hardly in the likeness of God at that point. God was spirit while Adam & Eve were of the dust.”
Did you see that???
Verse 27 says that they were created in the image of God, it clearly says that!
But EPI objected “NO, they are not for they are not Spirit yet”.
And WHY?
Because EPI made up his mind that to be in the image of God, you must be Spirit also for God is spirit.
Did you see the circular reasoning in the part of EPI here?
Now, EPI also said this “From being flesh & blood in he is still alive or from being dust if he had already died, this man will be changed to spirit in a moment, very quickly, just like the twinkling of an eye.”
Where in the Bible is that? what verse?
EMA: If you can’t see now the point I was driving at in my above post, maybe you’ll see it in the future.
If you think God’s “image” in Genesis refers to man’s facial and body features, think again because if so, then man should have feathers and wings.
Psalm 91:1 He who dwells in the secret place of the Most High
Shall abide under the shadow of the Almighty.
2 I will say of the LORD, “He is my refuge and my fortress;
My God, in Him I will trust.”
3 Surely He shall deliver you from the snare of the fowler
And from the perilous pestilence.
4 He shall cover you with His feathers,
And under His wings you shall take refuge..
“Image” is not the body make up but the character or reputation. Otherwise, God can’t see when you are at his back since man has his two eyes only in front.
The bible is like a movie recorded in DVD in which you can see the future by just looking at the end. Prophecy or Revelation makes this possible.
Jesus, the image of the invisible God, showed the way in the change from flesh and blood to spirit through the resurrection and for which he is considered as the “firstborn”.
Colossians 1:15 He is the image of the invisible God, the firstborn over all creation.
Jesus’ being “firstborn” refers to his resurrection from the dead.
Colossians 1:18 And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead…
If you don’t believe John who said that man will become a spirit and be like God, I wouldn’t be surprised if you dismiss my understanding as “faulty”. But I’ll quote again John to hammer the point, whether you will believe him or not.
1 John 3:2 Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
Until his change to spirit, man will not be able to see God. God being spirit, it is only Christ, who was with God, who has seen God.
John 6:46 Not that anyone has seen the Father, except He who is from God; He has seen the Father.
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Admerald wrote:
Now, EPI also said this “From being flesh & blood in he is still alive or from being dust if he had already died, this man will be changed to spirit in a moment, very quickly, just like the twinkling of an eye.”
Where in the Bible is that? what verse?
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Should I stop being surprised with your questions now?
1 Corinthians 15:52 in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
The change is from flesh and blood which is corruptible and mortal to that of being incorruptible and immortal spirit being.
1 Corinthians 15:53 For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.